[John]

I'm shocked you claim Jack said this, because he told me that even though he was close with Elizabeth, he had his feelings hurt when Elizabeth had that loud whisper about not wanting to be on the tribe with Karishma during the swap auction, and he felt left in the dust by her. So he never really brought up much positive things about her after that. Not negative either but just neutral if anything.

This also happened and why I felt like I could trust Jack.

Wouldn't it appear to be contradictory though? For him to dislike Elizabeth for this, but then try to show sorrow in the Elizabeth vote? Well, I suppose you didn't describe it like that now that I reread it.

I guess I'm just shocked with Jack by myself since he never expressed how sad it was to lose Elizabeth and blamed Missy to me. Interesting development.

He bashed Elizabeth leaving him out to dry immediately after the swap auction. Never mentioned her after we merged, but he talked explicitly about how he didn’t trust Missy. May have been due to a combination of things. I can’t speak for anyone else.

[John]

Bingo about Missy. She even threw out John’s name when I told her about him allegedly wanting to vote her out. She probably talked to Angelina and Angelina got her back in line. I have no idea though. Angelina kinda tipped me off both nights about me getting votes at the merge and said she wasn’t okay with it. Don’t know if she was being honest or not though.

This was resolved almost immediately but of course someone wants to vote for a person they are told is voting for them. That’s why she confronted me about it and realized she no longer needed to protect you.

Missy voting for Lauren should be clear enough evidence, but I’ll go back to being arrogant on my perch as I’ll soon be told.

What?! Angelina was never protecting me. She was just trying to be cordial so the voting bloc wouldn’t vote for her especially if an idol was played. I told Missy I was voting for her and I told Alison the same even if it was a mistake. Angelina was the same way. What’s your point?!

My entire response was to “ She even threw out John’s name when I told her about him allegedly wanting to vote her out.“

[John]

Lauren and I will be performing improv shows for $15 a pop every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday after the season ends. Get your tickets while they’re hot because they won’t last long!

[Lauren]

This was resolved almost immediately but of course someone wants to vote for a person they are told is voting for them. That’s why she confronted me about it and realized she no longer needed to protect you.

Missy voting for Lauren should be clear enough evidence, but I’ll go back to being arrogant on my perch as I’ll soon be told.

What?! Angelina was never protecting me. She was just trying to be cordial so the voting bloc wouldn’t vote for her especially if an idol was played. I told Missy I was voting for her and I told Alison the same even if it was a mistake. Angelina was the same way. What’s your point?!

My entire response was to “ She even threw out John’s name when I told her about him allegedly wanting to vote her out.“

LOL, I told her knowing she’d confront you. I didn’t care either. I was pretty upfront and honest about my intentions even when I tried to be vague.

[Carl]

Lauren and I will be performing improv shows for $15 a pop every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday after the season ends. Get your tickets while they’re hot because they won’t last long!

Getting season tickets for this for sure!

[Dean]

This also happened and why I felt like I could trust Jack.

Wouldn't it appear to be contradictory though? For him to dislike Elizabeth for this, but then try to show sorrow in the Elizabeth vote? Well, I suppose you didn't describe it like that now that I reread it.

I guess I'm just shocked with Jack by myself since he never expressed how sad it was to lose Elizabeth and blamed Missy to me. Interesting development.

He bashed Elizabeth leaving him out to dry immediately after the swap auction. Never mentioned her after we merged, but he talked explicitly about how he didn’t trust Missy. May have been due to a combination of things. I can’t speak for anyone else.

Right, yeah he said that part to me but not about his disdain for Missy. Maybe it's because he felt that I was with Missy in some way? but nah I never trusted her at all.

Tommy wanted to bring Missy into this huge ass alliance on Miombo in just the first few days, and even back then I got bad vibes from her. Aaron and I were the only opposition really to working with her. She was also the closest with Chelsea at the time who we didn't really know either. But since the pot hadn't been stirred yet at that point, the last thing we needed was for Missy to somehow find out we didn't want her or like her and for her to pop off that early. So, we played along for the time being. Anytime we worked with Missy was simply due to convenience.

[Dean]

Lauren and I will be performing improv shows for $15 a pop every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday after the season ends. Get your tickets while they’re hot because they won’t last long!

Can I get a discount cuz I know you

[John]

My favorite alliance I made was a fake one with Kara and Christian called The Trio. Kara and I jokingly created it before either of us had met Christian since we assumed he was such an easy vote, and we never told him about it.

Talk about successful group.

[John]

And NO DISCOUNTS! We can’t afford any freeloaders. After failing to win this game and missing out on the $100 jackpot, Lauren and I can barely afford to put food on the table.

[Lauren]

Wouldn't it appear to be contradictory though? For him to dislike Elizabeth for this, but then try to show sorrow in the Elizabeth vote? Well, I suppose you didn't describe it like that now that I reread it.

I guess I'm just shocked with Jack by myself since he never expressed how sad it was to lose Elizabeth and blamed Missy to me. Interesting development.

He bashed Elizabeth leaving him out to dry immediately after the swap auction. Never mentioned her after we merged, but he talked explicitly about how he didn’t trust Missy. May have been due to a combination of things. I can’t speak for anyone else.

Right, yeah he said that part to me but not about his disdain for Missy. Maybe it's because he felt that I was with Missy in some way? but nah I never trusted her at all.

Tommy wanted to bring Missy into this huge ass alliance on Miombo in just the first few days, and even back then I got bad vibes from her. Aaron and I were the only opposition really to working with her. She was also the closest with Chelsea at the time who we didn't really know either. But since the pot hadn't been stirred yet at that point, the last thing we needed was for Missy to somehow find out we didn't want her or like her and for her to pop off that early. So, we played along for the time being. Anytime we worked with Missy was simply due to convenience.

There was brief talk about Missy/Chelsea going even before Karishma.

[Dean]

He bashed Elizabeth leaving him out to dry immediately after the swap auction. Never mentioned her after we merged, but he talked explicitly about how he didn’t trust Missy. May have been due to a combination of things. I can’t speak for anyone else.

Right, yeah he said that part to me but not about his disdain for Missy. Maybe it's because he felt that I was with Missy in some way? but nah I never trusted her at all.

Tommy wanted to bring Missy into this huge ass alliance on Miombo in just the first few days, and even back then I got bad vibes from her. Aaron and I were the only opposition really to working with her. She was also the closest with Chelsea at the time who we didn't really know either. But since the pot hadn't been stirred yet at that point, the last thing we needed was for Missy to somehow find out we didn't want her or like her and for her to pop off that early. So, we played along for the time being. Anytime we worked with Missy was simply due to convenience.

There was brief talk about Missy/Chelsea going even before Karishma.

I don't know how serious it was or not but yeah, there was a tiny bit of discussion of that going around.

Actually I would have loved that a lot, and I fantasized about something like that happening, because Karishma was SUCH a good goat holy shit, imagine successfully bringing her to F3 with you. Automatic win. However I knew her time was up when we were split into three tribes of just 6 with hers having a majority from the other tribe on it.

[Alison]

^ Angelina probably had way more deals than anyone even credits her for. I don’t believe she wanted to go to the end with you guys at all even if she said it.

Clearly. She was even working deals outside the game, so it would seem. I'll just say it definitely did not come as a surprise. I suspect Alison and Angelina know each other in such fashion as well. Felt like it from the start...

i by no means knew angelina in the same fashion we just kinda clicked personalities.

[John]

If Karishma did the rock challenge on time, she could’ve made the merge.

[Tommy]

This was a good detailed read which I do enjoy, but I must comment:

It's really funny to me how everything I said my pitch to Aaron/Dean/Carl after I idol'ed out Lauren turned out to be true. I told them that the two "sides" needed to work together in order to get rid of the people playing both sides, otherwise they would dictate the rest of the game and take control of it. That is exactly what happened

No need for the quotation marks, just drop that already. There were different sides. You said even here that Kara and Alison were your F3, with Angelina as the 4th. Now, I knew there were cracks in my alliance; some were pretty obvious cracks actually. Whereas you, like I already predicted before, were a solid foursome and unless a miracle happened, you'd never turn on each other that early and there were no cracks in your alliance at all. That was far more dangerous in my eyes than anything else. What was the point of allying up temporarily if I knew there would be no way to try and sway at least one of you away from your super tight foursome? Can't speak for the rest of my group but that's how I felt. If at least one of you/Angelina/Alison/Kara were eliminated, then my alliance would have the numbers for a while (at the latest until F6) and we would be more open to negotiations. And perhaps after this hypothetical vote where one of you managed to go out, then maybe we would have pursued this middleground as free as we wish to and left you alone, since we'd be in total control.

Then there was also the fact that our side felt as though you were bullshitting us with this "target the people playing "both" sides" stuff, and that you would target one of our core people regardless, even though we knew your alliance took great offence at the concept of lying; we couldn't take a chance that you'd lie to us. I mean, it would have felt super fucking embarrassing if we agreed to get rid of Tommy legitimately this time, only for TC to come, and our side votes out Tommy and then you guys manage to get out someone like Aaron. We didn't want to risk that.

All of that is a completely fair rationale if you had the numbers. The four of us were close, and I never expected us all make it as far as we did so a move should have been made to take one of us out. I personally think Kara and Alison were more against Carl than I was, but I don’t fault anyone for trying to target me.

However, because you didn’t have Nick on your side (I had to hold back from using quotes), the plan was flawed. It’s fine if you didn’t believe me at the time, but by your group taking that risk to get rid of me over one of the people that actually had decision making power (ie Tommy and Nick), Carl was eliminated.

That being said, I also have absolutely no idea why Nick thought he was better off with us than you. That part surprised me when he said he was wanting to make a move to go for Carl since Carl felt close to him and even gave Nick coins on his way out. I told Nick and Tommy to talk to each other and figure out if it made sense to join us, but the two of them were the two people that decided who was leaving and made Carl the target that night.

All true^ Is this what we are supposed to do verify well thought out shit? John is 100% correct here.

[Tommy]

(Should we move this chat to the main commentary thread that's pinned do you think? Or keep it here?)

Nick was the biggest miscalculation for us. For me. I actually considered him a part of the core at the time, but apparently he felt completely left out, he told us after the Carl vote. We were all in a group, and I tried talking to him about things individually, but his lack of being online didn't help him at all. It was impossible to have enough time to relay info to him and include him in on things when so many developments happened when he wasn't online. Plus, since I thought Carl was his closest ally, that I didn't need to put as much effort into Nick as I could have. Because of all of this, and because I knew how tight your foursome was John, I was gobsmacked when Nick said he felt like we were going to target him and therefore he felt safer working with you guys. Carl seemed to be one of the brains on our side, so Aaron and I would vote out Carl before we'd consider voting out Nick. I think Carl and Dan's Jury threads show the story of why Carl gave Nick his coins and why Carl thought I flipped (I'm still lmao about that tbh).

It certainly does appear as though Nick and Tommy are this middle who are playing everyone with this new info you're giving to the jury. I don't know if Nick and Tommy are working together or not, or if it is all a big coincidence that their plans and paths are similar.

Nick no, I didn't know he'd flip, but Tommy was always an uncertainty ever since the merge began, so yes it was not a 100% shock, just a disappointment. He was basically a pocket vote, but one we had to keep eyes on. We failed at keeping our eyes on him lol.

I believe it was the time period of post-Lauren pre-Carl where we didn't talk to Tommy, since we decided he may not be able to be trusted with delicate game info since he told you about our Alison plan. For me it only was game. This whole game is just a game to me. So it confuses me when you say Tommy got treated poorly after the Lauren vote, because all I did was just talk to Tommy a bit less. I know Aaron was very vocal to me about his hatred for what Tommy did (I think he told me he didn't even want to speak with him after the game and he was worse than Nick), so unless Aaron or others went hard on him, I don't understand your last point.

I feel like we could have this discussion and others for a while, so I'll put the ball in your court whether you wanna continue to talk in your thread about this or go to the other one.

Nah they weren't that bad at all, just puzzled, but I needed good reason to be "rescued." I don't know if it really made a difference than just saying hey I wanna flip, but it made more sense in my mind.

[Tommy]

John is so arrogant. Missy did not leave because she voted out Elizabeth. It was more to it than that - I swear you think you knew everything that was going on in this game. And John in particular was incredibly butt hurt about Carl voting out Jessica.

You don’t think Missy voting out Elizabeth made people dislike her? Would love to hear Tommy, Chelsea, and Elizabeth’s side of the story here.

Johns right, silver platter!

[Tommy]

Missy also sold Tommy fake idol clues when they were supposed to be finding it together. He found out, and she barely beat him to the idol. Her behavior on Mihombo her last couple days weren’t the best either. I would’ve wanted her out even if she didn’t vote Elizabeth.

All also true, while she lied to me a lot, she also whipped my ass in the game several times over...until that one time.

[Tommy]

I COMPLETELY disagree that people got over Missy voting for Elizabeth more than Carl voting for Jessica. Tommy wanted her head on a platter, and she left early because of it. Carl got a pass in comparison.

Tommy and Chelsea would be the only candidates here, because they were got the brunt of that blindside and she compromised everything for them. Then after Chelsea left as the merge boot, I could see Tommy making Missy his mission sure. But you can't say "people" weren't over her. Carl told me so much about the flack he kept on getting from y'all about Jessica, which seemed often enough, but I haven't heard anyone who kept saying they were upset at the Elizabeth vote days after the merge still. Besides Tommy now, but that's only one person. And his personal vendetta was not a main factor for why our alliance decided on voting out Missy. The Missy vote was nuanced and complex. She was too dangerous, too unstable, and had way too much of a loose mouth on her and had no problem spilling secrets to people and going about making lies freely (and I say this as a liar myself!) and a lot of the reasons for wanting her to go can be found to have an origin going back to the OG Miombo. There were a few other things as well, like how Missy and Angelina were tight as hell, and Angelina was close with you lot. So naturally, we could conclude Missy would have not been a vote with us ever.

Missy just simply couldn't be trusted. That's it. For Tommy it may have been a bit more.

All also too and the logical reasons for taking her out. We actually thought when she linked up with your side, she would quite possibly start fucking you all over for no reason.